Researchers drove a NIO ES8 electric SUV deep into a Norwegian underground mine specifically to sever its external connections. The car kept attempting to reach servers, most of them located in China. These findings echo broader concerns about hidden data collection, similar to how a surveillance app was built to covertly target users without their knowledge.
That finding sits at the center of Project Lion Cage, a multi-year study initiated in 2022 by Tor Indstøy, a risk management and threat intelligence executive at Telenor Group. Indstøy purchased the NIO ES8 as a dedicated research platform.
The project arrives as Chinese EV brands expand across European markets with assurances about local data processing. Observed network behavior appears to contradict those assurances.
Chinese ev bus behaves like every John Deere tractor, Tesla, amazon ring doorbell, windows pc, mac, smart tv, iphone and android device , and probably every other car made since 2020.
“But China bad” is getting pretty old and frail in comparison to the domestic and international predations and privacy invasions of US tech businesses and government
A couple things, you are absolutely correct about the hypocrisy. All modern major manufacturers are doing the same thing. Calling out China without mentioning this is definitely a disservice.
On the invasion of privacy through spying, China is undoubtedly the worst followed by the US and Russia.
When it comes international predations I think you are correct. The US is the worst. Russia next then Israel and China. France and Germany probably fit in here somewhere as well with the selling of arms around the world.
China is undoubtedly the worst followed by the US and Russia.
I doubt it. Russia doesn’t have the infrastructure or the manpower to compete with a modern surveillance state. And the US doesn’t operate alone, it’s part of the Five Eyes network, including Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom. Nevermind NISRF.
Part of what makes the US network horrifying is how many other countries are blithely along for the ride.
What they lack in technology they make up for in brutality. Also, they aren’t that far behind building out their dystopian surveillance state.
https://therecord.media/russia-upgrades-rules-for-digital-spy-system-sorm
What they lack in technology they make up for in brutality.
That’s how surveillance works
A couple things, you are absolutely correct about the hypocrisy. All modern major manufacturers are doing the same thing.
and theres been tons of coverage about that, and how it can be used against you.
To pretend theres radio silence on it, and this is all just being big mean to china is the real hypocrisy.
“But China bad” is getting pretty old and frail in comparison to the domestic and international predations and privacy invasions of US tech businesses and government
ah, the “DON’T CRITICIZE CHINA” is getting even fucking older and frailer in comparison.
Especially when it says right in the article that its doing the exact opposite of what was promised.
Which, if any other countries product was doing that, you’d have a fit over it and not be sitting there going having a big whinge fest about the unfair persecution.
DON’T CRITICIZE CHINA
We put a machine with a radio in a room and the radio continued to try and function.
This is why we cannot import low priced, high quality foreign made electric engines.
if any other countries product was doing that, you’d have a fit
Why? It’s the same tired story, used to scare people who know nothing about communications technology. It’s all about making “Buy American” a national security issue.
If Brazil or Italy or even the dreaded Russia was being accused of this, why wouldn’t we stare sideways?
its doing the exact opposite of what was promised
I mean, remind me again why I’m trusting autos.yahoo.com on their reporting? Isn’t Yahoo a subsidiary of Apollo Global Management, a company with deep ties to the Epstein human trafficking cartel?
Yeah I’d be more interested in what it’s sending. Go into a mine with your smartphone (or just an LG TV) and it’ll be continually reaching out as well… but WHAT it’s trying to receive or transmit is important.
We put a machine with a radio in a room and the radio continued to try and function.
This is why we cannot import low priced, high quality foreign made electric engines.
In a way that they promised it wouldnt.
Which is kind of the important thing all you tankies seem to be willfully overlooking.
Why? It’s the same tired story, used to scare people who know nothing about communications technology. It’s all about making “Buy American” a national security issue.
If Brazil or Italy or even the dreaded Russia was being accused of this, why wouldn’t we stare sideways?
If anyone else was promising device would do X, and did Y instead, it would also be a cause for concern. Regardless of who did it.
If it was brazil, or Italy, you wouldnt be having this same tantrum over calling them out, as you are over calling out Dear China.
I mean, remind me again why I’m trusting autos.yahoo.com on their reporting? Isn’t Yahoo a subsidiary of Apollo Global Management, a company with deep ties to the Epstein human trafficking cartel?
he says, while having a tantrum over no one taking china, a notorious angel state that totally doesnt do horrific shit, at its word of being a good boy.
having a tantrum
Is reminding you of the questionable history of Apollo Global a tantrum?
No,thats just a poor attempt to shift the narrative away from your tantruming and away from China so you can shut down critical discussion.
It’s all about making “Buy American” a national security issue.
It absolutely is a national security issue!
It’s not exclusive to the US, either. It’s even worse when you use American digital services outside the US. I live in Europe and it is especially bad because we have very strong privacy laws and require companies which offer digital services to have their servers in Europe.
It absolutely is a national security issue!
Tell it to Volkswagen
Never said they were doung the right thing, just pointing out that if the behaviour warrants complaint, then complaint shoud be levied agaisnt everyone behaving that way.
But hey, you keep on with your black and white opinions.
Yes, exactly.
And theres been extensive coverage of western cars spying and doing nasty stuff.
But we get a news story about Chinese cars, who promised local data processing, still trying to connect back to chinese servers, and suddenly the tankie hands start wringing about people being so mean to poor poor china.
because we can be big mean to western states, but we can’t be factual about poor poor china. thats just racist.
Your arguments would carry more weight and might even be worth debating if you could make them objectively without attempts at petty insults, and pretentions of victimhood. As it stands, you’re just kinda predictable and boring. Moving on…
Obviously it would keep calling…
The point was likely to see what would happen if they could be 100% sure it couldn’t connect in anyway.
Before deciding if it’s worth attempting to find every conney, you need to verify what happens if you did succeed.
Like, finding out it bricks every vehicle after 24 hrs means it’s useless to bother and they need banned.
Why on Earth wouldn’t it keep trying? That’s how signals work. If my router goes down my computer is going to keep trying to connect to it even though it’s off. That’s not fucking news.
Thank you!!!
If I’m reading correctly, they specifically tried to stop it from doing so and even in what is essentially a faraday cage it keeps trying to link with Beijing to spill the tea, not exactly what you want if you “own” a product
Yeah, and that’s how connections work.
It doesn’t specify in the article if they toggled the WiFi switch off in the OS, one would assume they did before driving it into a mountain.
If so, not cool to keep calling home. If not, PEBKAC error
The car kept attempting to reach servers
To the surprise of whom?
ANY device that relies on radio signal communication for any of its functionality, taken anywhere (underground mine, parking garage, Antarctica, Santa’s workshop, etc), and it’ll try to maintain it’s connections. That’s just what they do.
Okay, but China Bad
I have Chinese manufactured IP cameras. they do not connect to the internet. yet, they still attempt to connect to Chinese servers at least once a minute.
this has been going on for at least 15 years.
they do not connect to the internet. yet, they still attempt to connect to Chinese servers
Via?
I’d like to not be spied on. But if forced to choose, I would rather be spied on by a foreign goverment than a domestic one.
Why not both? You’re only choosing your data broker.
We shouldn’t be capitualting to any form of spying either way. In the first place, why is a vehicle phoning home? While I disagree, it’s still somewhat thinly understandable if the CarPlay or Android Auto system is doing it but if not, why?
Maybe it’s because I have an old Mitsubishi from almost a decade ago with a fully offline third party car entertainment system that came with it but it runs perfectly fine without any of this nonsense.
If I take my cellphone into a cave it too will keep calling home.
Lol wut. What kind of scaremongering BS article is this?
Telemetry system attempts to phone home during connectivity interruption
“FIRE UP THE PRESSES!”
With all our formidable intelligence and NSA capability and massive massive funding, no one can tell whats in those communications after all this time huh. We even have physcial access to the devices and we still cant figure it out. Next time we are told the government needs to remove citizens constitional rights to privacy or needs us to use insecure encryption keys, we should all question what the hell for. And next time I hear “Israel helps us with our intelligence” I want to hear what they came up with in understyanding what chinese devices are sending home, or they can shut the hell up. So far all we seem capable of is spying on our own citizens, IF we all use insecure communications and allow our every movement in public to be videoed. I am not impressed.
Ni hao
Am I the only one in this thread that feels like a vehicle here shouldn’t even have any form of internet connection regardless what nation it is from? The fact that this is from China doesn’t matter. Why does a vehicle even need network equipment (other than a FM radio at most)?
Oh no think of our own GDPR compliant surveillance. (it’s still surveillance)
It has a kill switch, too
(I have no evidence other than The Odyssey and everything that has happened since)
I would recycle all the CCP/PLA made buses until West Taiwan is Free.
Neo-Yellow peril gibberish fearmongering.
Ever notice this trend?
- Some company’s server in China = China
- A website in China = China
- A meme on a Chinese social media = China
- Some random person in China = China
Or, maybe, it’s because the Chinese government is very closely linked to all the major businesses? Of course the same should be said for pretty much every other big brother country out there. China isnt unique in that effect
it’s almost as if corporations in China are forced to comply with state affairs…
I wouldnt be surprised if ALL devices (chinese or not) are spying on us, just like these chinese ones and all this complaining is from industry people who dont want competition from cheap chinese tech. The western world is run by the rich capitalists, and that includes the management and PR announcers from our intelligence services.
Um… I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but as of late there has been rising concerns about any involuntary, unprompted data gathering. Not just from China, but America and Russia too.
And considering how these data gathering elements have pretty strong connections to the government where their servers are located, it’s not out of place to simply refer to the country.
