Now that you’ve finally done your homework, presented the sources of your beliefs for me to examine, like I told you to do about seven times, I will happily go through them, since you are no longer trying to make me go on a wild goose chase hunting down every random internet user with something negative to say about the USSR.

The whole point, since the begining, was to get you to do additional reading beyond what is presented to you. You know, to LEARN ABOUT THE FUCKING SUBJECT.
But you don’t actually care about the subject, do you? Because you only give a shit about defending your ideology, and not about the truth about what actually happened. This is why you’re always going to lose, because you’re dishonest, and I have no patience for people who are dishonest.

I’m done with you now.

Then apparently you didn’t read this source, which was one of the sources I gave you, where it says “In Moscow of the 1970s-1980s, for a regular schmuck in a regular clerk position, the rule of thumb was 10 years, give or take.”

Or this, also from the same source, “Large regional capitals and major cities (Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev, Riga): commonly 7–20+ years; in the biggest cities many applicants waited a decade or more.”

Or maybe this one from Russia Beyond, which is the other source I gave you, which you loved to point out says “On average, the waiting time to receive an apartment from the state in the USSR was around six to seven years.” However if you weren’t so damn lazy you would’ve read the next fucking paragraph, which says “Public sector employees (teachers, doctors) could join a waiting list compiled by the local administration, but the waiting time on these could be more than 10 years.” It’s almost like you don’t care about the actual truth.

Or maybe if you weren’t lazy you could’ve done some additional reading like I told you to like seven times, then you would’ve found this source, which literally the 5th result in a google search, and you would’ve seen this:

‘Life in a hostel is unbearable even with one child,’ Natalya Fomina, 26, a weaver at a textile factory in the Ural Mountains told the weekly Moscow News. ‘By the time I get a flat I’ll probably be an old woman.’ A 20-year wait was termed ‘the general rule.’

But you didn’t bother doing that because you didn’t do any further reading because you’re intellectually lazy and don’t give a fuck about the actual truth. So no suprise there.

Hey look, here’s another source which is literally on the front page of a google search, where it’s mentioned " I’ve been waiting for a home for 10 years, but I can’t afford it and I don’t have a back-up." I won’t tell you which page that’s located on because I want you to find it for yourself.

In fact, since I know you’re lazy as hell and don’t actually give a fuck, here’s five other sources. But watch out, one of these sources is false! Which one is it? You’ll have to quit being lazy and actually READ them to find out.

Here
Here
Here
Here
and Here

Now quit being lazy. Go to Google.com, type in “How long did people wait for housing in the USSR,” click “Search” and read some of the god damned links. Ask yourself “Do you actually care about the truth?” Because if you are then stop lying to me about reading, and actually do the fucking reading.

Jesus fucking wept.

I asked you to read additional sources besides the ones I provided for you. Did you do that?

Bro, what is the one thing I asked you to do, in my last 15 comments?

Ok, I see that you’re more interested in winning an arguement than what is really true. I’ll say it one last time,
In real life, the wait time for the average person to get an apartment in the USSR was more than 10 years, sometimes up to 20 or more. This is what multiple sources (including the ones I posted) actually say. If you don’t believe me go back and read them in greater detail, or even better do some additional reading of other sources that I didn’t list.

Nowhere have you presented any evidence it was remotely close to 20-30!

Because i’ts not my job to educate you. I told you what to do, now you can choose to do it.

God damn, no wonder kids are so fucking stupid nowadays. Nobody can get you people to read.

Lol you’re literally asking me to do your work for you.
No, if you’re interested, YOU can go and do the research, like I’ve been telling you for the last five comments.

And you can talk all you want about how I “don’t care about the truth,” no amount of posturing will change the objective fact that 7 is less than 20.

The truth is normal people waited 10 or more years, sometimes more than 20.
I mean you wouldn’t know, because you haven’t bothered to do any additional reading. I’ve already proven it to my own statisfaction, now you can do the same.

So you haven’t bothered to do any more research, correct? Do you really care about the truth? Or do you only care about winning an arguement?

It was more than 10 years for most people, and up to 20 years or more.
Which you would’ve known if you’d bothered to do the reading.

What’s more important, what you want to believe or what really happened?
Read up on the subject please.

You just can’t accept that basic mathematical fact because you’re an ideologue.

No, I think you refuse to do the research on this subject because you’re the actual ideologue here. You have an emotional stake in somehow proving that the USSR wasn’t a totalitarian inept impoverished wasteland, and actually learning what life was like under that system would destroy your worldview.

Whatever son. It’s a free country, so go with whatever bullshit you want. The evidence backs up u/Blacklazor and not you, I love how you just can’t handle it.

I would also like to point out the parts of his comments that you didn’t dispute or don’t have a probem with, such as his father “needed to get a permit to leave the country,” or that food was “rationed, not subsidized,” or the fact that in order to get housing, one must get on a list and wait multiple years in the first place. I mean, yeah that sure does sound like a great place to live.

But please, go do the work and read up on the subject, because you’re wrong on pretty much all of your points above. Like this one:

That’s not what he said at all. The 20 sqm apartment was the “piss poor commie block apartment” that one would have to wait 20-30 years for.

Nope. If you would’ve actually done the research, you’d have seen that one is usually given a bed in a dormatory, then must get on a waiting list for a “piss poor commie block apartment.” The tiny apartment where a family of four is squeezed into 20sqm is after they waited multiple years. This is if they were lucky enough to get an apartment they didn’t have to share with multiple other families.

Now please put in the effort and read up on it, because you’re really misinformed.

Just like they did to me, when they said the only thing that drew me to communism was “propaganda” as opposed to my time working under capitalism. The difference is that I discounted their unsubstantiated claims about statistical facts while they discounted my own journey.

Yeah but you did it first.

According to Quora? Great, so now we have two internet randos saying something.

I mean you could get up off your butt and look yourself if you have a problem with the source I provided. Like I said there’s a wealth of information out there regarding the subject. You could also try to dispute my source instead of just dismissing it out of hand - like you did to u/Blacklazor.

Finally. Say what you will about Russian state media, but at least it’s more of a source than random people on the internet, which you seem to primarily rely on.

Ahh, so you’ll trust media from the oppressors you agree with. So basically you’re a tankie equvalent of MAGA.

What on earth?? “The account checks out” when they were exaggerating somewhere between 2-5 times the actual numbers?

So you didn’t actually read anymore about the subject, right? Why am I not suprised.

The claim was not, “you had to wait 20-30 years for an upgrade” it was specifically “You weren’t getting any housing in that system. You could enlist in a queue and wait for 20-30 years to get piss poor commie block apartment.” That’s completely unsupported by your sources.

Read the rest of that paragraph please. I’ll post it here to make it easy for you.

You weren’t getting any housing in that system. You could enlist in a queue and wait for 20-30 years to get piss poor commie block apartment. My father was one of very few people who were just well enough for building a house. He was struggling with money, rationing of materials, corruption and poor quality of work, while our family of four lived in 20m2 apartment like animals in stables.

I.e. His family of four lived in a 20 sqm apartment (less than 9sqm per person) and would have to wait 20-30 years to get a “piss poor commie block apartment.” I don’t think it’s unreasonable to characterize “waiting 20-30 years” as “never.” Now if you’d read the sources I posted you’d see this aligns very closely with what is described - that being most people who weren’t rich or connected to an oligarch had to wait more than 10 years for an apartment. I even found a source that broke it down into a nice and helpful chart - see if you can find that source yourself.

I mean, I know you won’t becuase this hands your ass to your arguement on a sliver platter with a side of trimmings, and if there’s one thing people like you can’t stand it’s being proved wrong, bu whatever.

As it turns out, I was 100% right to be skeptical, because your own sources back me up and show that the other person was completely wrong.

Except in real life it wasn’t, what u/blacklazor described aligns pretty well with the accounts on both pages, and other sources you will find if you just quit being lazy and put in the effort.

Skipping the rest of the bullshit you posted for my own mental health. There is a wealth of information that you can get with a few simple googles, please read up and stop embarassing yourself.

Weird, I actually live in the system I want to change, but I guess my experiences don’t mean anything, and I should just listen to some random internet stranger about it.

I’m sure you wouldn’t want someone to completely disregard your experiences out of hand, correct? Like how you just did to u/BlackLazor. I would hope you wouldn’t want someone to do the same to you.

Some of us base our opinions on facts and reason. Is there any actual source on “having to wait 20-30 years for a house?” Or am I just expected to accept that claim completely uncritically?

According to Quora the wait time was around 10 years. This person also says a family of four in a very tiny space (less than 20 sqm) was the norm. That account is pretty extensive, with contemporary illustrations to help you understand.

Russia Beyond says the wait time was 6-7 years. Apparently you couldn’t apply for an apartment if your current living situation was any better than a broom closet (must be less than 9 sqm per person.) This source also says that Public sector employees (doctors, teachers, etc) had a wait time of 10 or more years. Apparently one could buy an apartment for 10,000 rubles, while the average salary was 150-200 rubles, so about ten times the monthly salary.

Looking at all this, it seems to me what u/Blacklazor said was not incorrect. It may be exaggerated, but the sources say most people lived in cramped apartments with too many people per sqm, were waiting “More than 10 years” to upgrade, and didnt’ get to specify which apartment one was given, or where it was located. So far the account checks out.

You know, there really does seem to be a lot of info out there about housing in the USSR, if you’re truly serious about wanting to know and not just virtue signaling I’d reccomend doing some googles and actually reading about it. Not being facetious, it’s pretty interesting.

I can’t help but notice how negative claims about communist societies are placed in this special category where expressing any sort of skepticism about them is seen as somehow morally wrong. It reminds me a lot of how questioning the religion I was raised with was seen as wrong, demonstrating a lack of faith. I’m sorry that I don’t have enough blind faith in capitalism for you and keep blaspheming against your dogma.

Nobody said you were morally wrong. What I did say is that you had the same kind of reaction against u/Blacklazor that a religious person does when confronted with questions of faith, because you did. You completely disregarded the account and made zero effort to assess or examine your own position.

I like how you completely disregarded an account by someone who actually lived under the system you’re shlupping and immediatley attacked his character. Kinda like how christians react when you tell them Jesus wasn’t real, or Ivermectin won’t stop covid.
Just remarkable similarity.